For Mark and Maaark

And yes, if we don’t understand how the ecosystem functions, we will not be able to save OURSELVES. I am very sure of that. If we ran across a car sitting someplace and knew nothing about mechanics and had never even seen metal, how would we be able to fix it? There is no doubt that the universe and the ecosystem function by “natural laws,” that is physical laws, and that life (the ecosystem) would not exist if those laws were not what they are. And, as the ecosystem is more than we are, similarly the natural laws are more than the ecosystem is. We would not be here without the ecosystem, and the ecosystem would not be here if there were no physical law of gravity, law of thermodynamics, etc. So neither we nor the ecosystem can survive outside the natural law that makes us both possible. Nobody KnowsFlat

It is not possible for the part to dominate the whole. The ecosystem is an organism and it functions as an organism. Think down a bit — you are an organism. It would be laughable if a group of your cells, say the kidney cells, decided to dominate you. There are only two possible ends. They fail or you die.

I leave a hope of success because there is no point assuming we will fail to learn these things, but the longer we delay the more terrible will be the cost in human suffering, and we can not succeed by applying human intuition to the problem. Example again. Your needs for survival, as an individual organism, are not the same as the needs of your kidney. For one thing, you eat food. Kidneys do not eat food, they plug into your circulatory system for their survival. If we continue to evaluate the needs of the ecosystem according to even the highest of human values, we will continue to deprive the ecosystem of what she requires for her survival. If we are to succeed, there is an absolute imperative that we understand the mechanical natural law that makes ecosystem survival possible, and there is only one accurate source of measurable facts about this information, because science is the only discipline that limits itself to measurable facts for its evaluations. If we ignore that source we will not succeed.

That is not the same as saying there is no spiritual component to our study of the ecosystem. It also is not the same as saying there IS a spiritual component. Science has nothing to do with spiritual because science is not science unless it is studying measurable facts. The Dalai Lama is trying to scientifically measure spiritual experiences, and a number of scientists also. And they are succeeding in measuring brain waves that are different during various mental states of people. So what does that prove? It proves the mechanics — it proves nothing about the spirituality itself. Science has nothing to do with spirituality. On the other hand, the Dalai Lama has 2000 years of human study of spirituality in his heritage, and he has stated that measurable facts take precedence in those areas of understanding where our human interpretation conflicts with the measurable facts about the universe. His statement reflects his understanding of the relationship between measurable facts and human spirituality, and he is no scientist. He is one of the world’s most knowledgeable spiritualists.

So none of science is necessarily spiritually related. It’s more like mechanical. This is how things work, therefore this is how we should behave if we want ourselves and our super-organism — the ecosystem — to survive. There isn’t anything necessarily spiritual or not spiritual about it.

But I agree with Maaark that we are more likely to succeed if scientists and spiritualists (religionists I think he said) would come down off their respective ivory towers and begin the conversation.